Discussions of possible links between known Busby Lines

The possibility of links between a Northumberland, and Oxfordshire, and a Middlesex Busby line

Copies of text from messages that I posted to a Busby genealogy mailing list in July 2004:

Text from message 1:

Secondly, regarding my perception of a likely link between her
Oxfordshire BUSBY line and the Northumberland BUSBY line, my reasons are
in the message below, that I posted to the list last year.

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, Bret Busby wrote:
> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:26:00 +0800 (WST)

> Subject: BUSBY/ KENNEDY, and different BUSBY lines being likely connected
> Hello, everyone.
> Here in Western Australia, at the State Reference Library yesterday, a
> Family History Fair was held. At the Fair, a stand was operated by the
> Combined Scottish Clan Societies of WA, and, on that stand were
> (amongst others) two books.
> In one of those two books, was the following.
> "Busby - From the lands of Busby or Busbie in the parish of Carmunnock,
> Renfrewshire. In 1330 the office of notary was conferred on David de
> Busby of Glasgow (Pap.Lett, II, p312). John Busby or Busseby appears as
> a chaplain to the Duke of Albany and as canon of Moray in 1408 inb 1411
> (Bain, IV, 751, 801, 813, 814) and Andro Busby, alderman of Are is in
> record in 1488 and 1491 (Ayr, p92; Friars Ayr, p62). John Busby and
> Gawin Busbe, followers of the earl of Cassilis, were respited for murder
> in 1526 (RSS, I, 3386). James Busbie was a bookseller in Edinburg in
> 1648 (Edinb Marr.) and John Busby published a report of his
> mineralogical survey of Caithness in 1815."
> -p 120, "The Surnames of Scotland" - George F Black
> (I note that I have seen the name Andro Busby, above, spelt Andrew
> Busby, in messages including excerts from historical texts, on a
> Scotland list)
> Note that (from the document by William Dalkeith Donkin, cited below)
> the name Cassilis, is pronounced "Cassels".
> Now, from the text above, it appears to me, that the John Busby in the
> last sentence, is the John Busby who married Sarah Kennedy and emigrated
> to Australia in 1824, and created the Busby Bore in Sydney. That is one
> thing.
> Another, is that the connection between the Busby's and the Kennedy's of
> Cassilis, goes back before the 19th century, when John Busby married
> Sarah Kennedy, great-niece of the 9th and 10th Earls of Cassilis (from
> the document by William Dalkeith Donkin, great-grandson of John Busby
> and Sarah Kennedy, 1952).
> In the two page document by Willian Dalkeith Donkin, is stated, "In 1558
> Gilberth, the 3rd Earl (of Cassilis) was waylaid and killed"".
> This indicates that John Busby and Gawin Busbe, who were respited for
> murder in 1526, were followers of the 2nd Earl of Cassilis, and thus
> that the connection between the line of Busby's of John Busby who
> married Sarah Kennedy then emigrated to Australia, went back at least
> until the 16th century and the 2nd Earl of Cassilis.
> Another book on that stand, which is unfortunately now out of print,
> which had a page about the Kennedy's, on page 260, was "The Scottish
> People - Their Clans, Families and Origins", by James Alan Rennie,
> published by Hutchinson of London.
> The person at this stand who had these two books, is of the Clan
> Donnachaidh Society of Western Australia (the clan name meaning
> "Children of Duncan"), and she told me that her people have also a
> connection with the Kennedy's, and, that a Clan Kennedy exists and also
> a Kennedy tartan (I have now seen a copy of the tartan), and that
> descendants of Sarah Kennedy can, of substantiation of their lineage,
> claim membership of the Clan Kennedy, and also the right to wear the
> tartan.
> As the person told me, one advantage of the membership of the Kennedy
> Clan Society, would be access to the resources of the Clan, such as
> access to the genealogical research of the Clan. I am not aware of a
> Kennedy Clan Society in WA, but, they apparently exist elsewhere, and
> have (as expected) a presence in Scotland, which would have much
> information.”

> Anyway, I thought that people may be interested in the above, and, in
> the rights to the Kennedy clan stuff, for descendants of John Busby and
> Sarah Kennedy, and similarly for any descendants of any other
> BUSBY-KENNEDY relationships.
> Now, apart from all of that information, I have been contacted by a
> descendant of a line of Oxford BUSBY's, which is also of interest. The
> person who sent me the information below, is Jo Maryon (that
> information starts with "> > " in each line; my response with "> ").
> Note: I have changed the content of the messages below, slightly - I got
> a bit confused with the line of BUSBY's to which the people to whom I
> was writing, belonged, so I have corrected the references to the lines.
> I hope they will forgive me for that.
> > >
> > > The furthest back I've tracked on
> > > the BUSBY line is to is Great Great grandfather, William BUSBY, general
> > > labourer, born about 1807 in Crawley, Witney, Oxon. He married Jane Eliza
> > > HUDSON (sometimes known as Eliza Jane - to confuse matters!) at Stanton
> > > Saint John, Oxford, about 1834. They had at least two children, William
> > > BUSBY born around 1849 and my great grandmother, Sarah Jane BUSBY. On the
> > > 1881 census, both William and Sarah stated that they were born at Wheatley,
> > > Oxon. However, I've got Sarah Jane's birth certificate and she was actually
> > > born at the Union Workhouse, Headington, Oxford.
> > >
> > > Great grandmother Sarah Jane BUSBY had my grandfather, Henry Kennedy BUSBY,
> > > in 1873, before she married Charles MAUD in 1878. Henry was born in
> > > Chipping Norton. By the 1881 census, William BUSBY junior was in Chipping
> > > Norton too, married with a couple of kids and his mother Jane Eliza
> > > (widowed by then) also living with him and his wife.
> > >
> > > Henry Kennedy BUSBY has no father stated on his birth certificate but, using
> > > the naming conventions used then, his father was probably a Henry KENNEDY.
> > > Unfortunately, at that point, the trail goes cold.
> > >
> > >
> > > There were quite a lot of BUSBY families in Chipping Norton, on the 1881
> > > census, but I've no idea if they are linked to my ancestors or not.
> > >
> >
> > John Busby (not my line, as far as I am aware) migrated to Australia
> > with his wife Sarah Kennedy in 1824. He was a civil engineer, who was
> > responsible for the Busby Bore in Sydney, a significant water source for
> > Sydney, Australia, for some time. There are greater claims to fame, from
> > that Busby line, but what I thought might interest you, is the presence
> > of the Kennedy name, and its significance.
> >
> > Sarah Kennedy is a great niece of Thomas and David, 9th and 10th Earls
> > of Cassilis. That Kennedy line goes back to the 12th century in
> > Ayrshire, Scotland.
> >
> > "The Kenneths or Kennedys settled in Ayrshire in the 12 Century and were
> > known as the Kings of Carrick. Sir John Kennedy lived at Dunure Castle
> > in the 14th Century. The first Lord Kennedy died in 1450 and the 3rd
> > Lord Kennedy and 1st Earl of Cassilis (pronounced Cassels) was killed at
> > Flodden in 1513"
> > - First paragraph of two page document "The Relationship Between Sarah
> > Busby and the Kennedy Clan and A Short Account of the Great Kennedy
> > Feud" - 1952, William Dalkeith Donkin, descendant of John Busby of the
> > Busby Bore fame.
> >
> > I know of this, as I have a copy of the two page document, which is
> > part of a 20 page fax sent to me in 2001, and, I have gone throught it
> > in the last couple of days, having been contacted by a descendant of
> > John Busby of the Busby Bore fame.
> >
> > That line of Busby's goes from Ayrshire, Scotland, to Northumberland, to
> > Australia, from memory.
> >
> > One of that John Busby's sons, was James Busby, who was the more famous
> > of that line. James Busby is known to have brought winegrowing to
> > Australia and New Zealand (I was born and raised in New Zealand), and he
> > was the man who got the Maori to sign the Treaty of Waitangi, a famous
> > (or infamous, depending on a person's perspective) agreement between the
> > Maori Chiefs of New Zealand, and the British, which allowed for the
> > formation of New Zealand, and, the signing over of New Zealand to the
> > British.
> >
> > One of my great-grandfathers had told my father that that James Busby
> > was our great-great-granduncle, but I have found no evidence to
> > substantiate that. The furthest that I have been able to go back in my
> > Busby ancestry, is to my great-great-grandfather, Michael Horton Busby,
> > born Chesham Buckinghamshire in 1803.
> >
> > My great-great-grandfather was named Michael Horton Busby. His wife's
> > name was Louisa Rose. Their children follow.
> > Sarah Louisa Busby, b 1832.
> > William Michael Busby, b November 1833, d July 1834.
> > Michael William Busby, b December 1834.
> > George Henry Busby, b 1836.
> > Victoria Maria Busby, b 1840.
> > Albert Napoleon Busby, b 1842.
> > Edwin Arthur Busby, b 1845.
> > Frederick Augustus Busby, b 1847.
> > Rose Horton Busby, b 1849.
> > Frances Amelia Busby, b 1851.
> >
> > Maybe the common names are just co-incidence, maybe not.
> >
> > Sarah Louisa Busby and Michael William Busby emigrated to Australia in
> > about the 1850's, and sister and brother, married brother and sister of
> > a family in Australia.
> >
> > The rest of that family; Michael Horton Busby and his wife Louisa, and,
> > all the other children, except for George Henry Busby, have been found
> > to have emigrated to New Zealand. I have no idea what happened to George
> > Henry Busby. Albert Napoleon Busby is my great-grandfather. He and his
> > father were venetian blind makers, and they had a shop on the main
> > street of Auckland, New Zealand. Before they migrated to New Zealand,
> > Michael Horton Busby had a shop in Islington, Middlesex, not far from
> > where they lived in Islington. I was born and raised in NZ, emigrated
> > here about 25 years ago.
> >
> > Michael Horton Busby's son Albert Napoleon Busby, is my
> > great-grandfather.
> >
> > Albert Napoleon Busby married Martha Brinlay, and their children are
> > listed below.
> > Alberth Horton Busby, b 1871
> > George Henry Busby, b 1873
> > Herbert Edwin Busby, b 1876
> > Louisa Ada Busby, b 1878
> > May Gertrude Busby, b 1880
> > Maud Amelia Busby, b 1882
> > Norman Cecil Busby, b 1884
> > Mildred Ivy Busby, b 1886
> > Percy William Busby, b 1888
> > Eric Stafford Busby, b 1891
> >
> > Maud Amelia Busby had a daughter Maud May Busby (unmarried mother).
> >
> > Now, after all of that, the name William is common to your line and to
> > mine, as is Sarah, and the name Henry, and so is the name Maud.
> >
> > Also, the presence of the name Kennedy in your line, and, in the line of
> > John Busby of the Busby Bore (his wife's maiden name).
> >
> > Regarding that John Busby, the following is from a message from one of
> > his descendants, Lesley.
> >
> > >
> > > His (John's) parents are Dr. George Busby and Margret Wilson
> > > Sarah Kennedy's father was James Kennedy ( younger brother of David 10th
> > > Earl of Cassilis) whoes line goes back to 12th century as the Kennedys of
> > > Cassilis (Scotland), Castles Abbeys etc.
> > >
> > > John and Sarah (nee Kennedy) children were
> > > George, James, Katherine, John, Alexander and William
> > >
> > > George (Dr) married Agnes Thomson
> > > children were John, Agnes, Sarah, Katherine,
> > > Jessie, Mary, Alexander and William
> > >
> > > James married Agnes Dow
> > > children were John Dow, Sarah, James, George Alexander, William and Agnes
> > >
> > > Katherine married William Dalrymple Kelman
> > > children were William, Sarah, Harriet, John, Lewis, James, Jessie
> > >
> > > John died in 1884 (no other information)
> > >
> > > Alexander married Caroline Cripps
> > > children were Alexander, Charles, Constance, Beatrice, Blanche, William,
> > > Norah, Susan
> > >
> > > William (The Hon. M.L.C.) married Annie Woore
> > > children were Katherine, Thomas, Frances, Lily, Alice, Marion, Ella,
> > > Alexander, William, Sarah, Edith, George
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Looking at the names in that lot, it appears to me, either that the
> > three lines (the Oxford line, the John Busby line, and my line), are
> > likely linked, or, there is some great coincidence with the
> > commonality of the names.
> >
> >
> Below is another message I sent to a relative of Jo Maryon, in which I
> included Jo's message, which I have removed below..
> >
> > Note the presence of the Kennedy name, which to me, indicates a high
> > likelihood of the John Busby of the Busby Bore, line of Busby's and
> > the Oxford line of Busby's, above, being connected.
> >
> > There is a book, "The Busby Family", by Augusta Dora Merewether Busby,
> > which traces the John Busby and Sarah Kennedy line from the
> > descendants of John Busby of the Busby Bore, back to Northumberland
> > and beyond.
> >
> > The book is a four volume manuscipt, of which a limited run of only 100
> > copies were printed. It was published in about 1994, and a copy is held
> > at each of the Mitchell Library in Sydney, and at the Australian
> > National Library in Canberra.
> >
> > I have not seen the book; I am only aware of it, and that I cannot
> > access it. Some of the other descendants of John Busby, who were known
> > to Augusta, were provided with copies of the book, and I believe that
> > some university libraries in NSW and NZ, may have copies of the book.
> >
> > Interestingly, with the author of that book, being named Augusta Dora
> > Merewether Busby, it was my great-granduncle, Frederick Augustus Busby
> > (or Augustus Frederick Busby), who told my father, that James Busby,
> > son of John Busby of the Busby Bore, was our great-great-granduncle. I
> > have not been able to find any definite evidence of a relationship
> > between my Busby line, and that of that James Busby. That James Busby
> > was known to have brought winegrowing to Australia and New Zealand,
> > apart from being the British Resident responsible for the Treaty of
> > Waitangi in New Zealand.
> >
> > The coincidence of the names Augustus and Augusta, is yet another
> > coincidence of the names between our Busby lines, apart from the
> > presence of the Kennedy name in both the John Busby of the Busby Bore,
> > line and the Oxford Busby line.
> >
> >
> I note also that one name that is common to each of the three lines, is
> Sarah, the name of Sarah Kennedy, wife of John Busby, and also the name
> of the mother of Henry Kennedy Busby, and also the name of the oldest
> daughter of Michael Horton Busby.
> I have now today received the following message from Jo Maryon.
> >
> > I'm afraid that I've already given you nearly all of the historic
> > information that I have discovered on my Busby family. About the only bit
> > of information that I can add is that my grandfather, Henry Kennedy BUSBY,
> > joined the Royal Scots Greys regiment, which is strange for someone born and
> > brought up in the English Midlands. I can remember one of my elderly aunts
> > saying that he had some sort of link to the regiment, so was allowed to
> > join. Could it be that elusive father of his was the link??
> Here is an interesting possibility for that one.
> >
> > From the two page document by William Dalkeith Donkin, "The Kenneths or
> > Kennedys" suggests that the family names are the same.
> >
> > From the web page at
> > This family bear for their arms, sable, a naked man with the arms
> > extended proper, and the motto, " I dare," to perpetuate a brave exploit
> > performed by one of their ancestors. A near kinsman of Kenneth II was
> > hung by the Picts, which so grieved the king that he offered a large
> > reward to any one who would rescue the corpse; no one, however, would
> > undertake the enterprise; at last one came to the king and said:
> > "Dalziell," which signifies, I dare; and he rescued the body and brought
> > it to the king, for which act his posterity took their name of Dalziell,
> > and the arms and motto which they still use. "
> >
> > From the web page at
> >
http://www.electricscotland.com/webclans/dtog/dalzell2.html about the
> > Clan Dalzell,
> > "DALZELL, DALYELL: First mentioned in 1259, this name is derived from
> > the old Barony of Dalziel in Lanarkshire. In 1296 Thomas de Dalielle
> > swore loyalty to Edward I of England. From Robert Dalzell of that Ilk in
> > 1446, descended the Laird of Dalzell who fought for Mary, Queen of
> > Scots, at Langside in 1568. His son Lord Dalzell purchased the Carnwath
> > estate from the Earl of Mar in 1630, and was made Earl of Carnwath by
> > Charles I in 1639. The first and only matriculation of arms in Lyon
> > Court was in 1672. The renowned Thomas Dalzell, founder of the oldest
> > cadet branch of Dalzell of Binns, derived from an uncle of the 1st Earl.
> > He became a General in the Russian army and later established the Royal
> > Scots Greys Regiment in 1678. The estate of the Binns in West Lothian
> > was erected into a barony in 1685. Carnwath was sold by the 4th Earl to
> > Sir George Lockhart in about 1684, and on the death of his son John the
> > title passed to the 3rd Baronet of Glenae. This branch sprang from Sir
> > John of Glenae and Newtown, 2nd son of the 1st Earl. On the death of the
> > 13th and last Earl of Carnwath, Arthur Edward Dalyell, in 1941, this
> > peerage became either dormant or extinct. The ancient seat of the chiefs
> > of this House is Dalzell Castle by the River Clyde, in Lanarkshire. This
> > name appears in many forms, and an old Galloway rhyme concerning the
> > Dalyells of Glenae runs: "Deil an Da'yell begins wi yae letter; Deil's
> > no gude, and Da'yells's nae better."
> > "
> >
> > And from the web page at
> > "HOUSE OF THE BINNS To the right, on top of the hill is a conspicuous
> > tower built in 1826. To the left of this you can just see, through the
> > trees, the mansion house of The Binns, the home of the Dalyells (pron.
> > Dee-Yell) since 1612. Here in 1681 General Tam Dalyell raised the Royal
> > Scots Greys Regiment, so named after the colour of their horses.
> > THOMAS DALYELL In 1603 Thomas Dalyell, an Edinburgh merchant, left
> > Scotland to accompany James VI to London on his acceptance of the crown
> > of England. Dalyell made his fortune and in 1612 he returned and bought
> > the land and built his house.
> > TAM DALYELL General Tam Dalyell (1599-1685), son of Thomas, was a
> > staunch royalist and fought for Charles II against Cromwell at the
> > Battle of Worcester in 1651. He was captured and imprisoned in the Tower
> > of London from which he escaped and made his way to Russia where he
> > served in the Russian army as a general of the Cossack cavalry. He
> > earned the nickname 'The Muscovite Devil' from his liking for roasting
> > prisoners on a spit. He was later recalled by Charles II at the
> > restoration of the monarchy in 1660 and became commander-in-chief in
> > Scotland from 1666-85, suppressing the Covenanters at Rullion Green in
> > 1666. His opponents accused him of being in league with the Devil. Local
> > legend has it that he often played cards with Satan who usually won. On
> > one occasion Tam won and in a fit of temper the Devil threw the card
> > table at him but missed and the table went out of the window to land in
> > what was known as the Sergeant's Pond. Needless to say, when the pond
> > was drained in 1878 a heavy marble table was found in the mud. The
> > present day descendant of the general is also a Tam Dalyell - a Labour
> > Member of Parliament and a former Trooper in the Royal Scots Greys."
> >
> > Thus, perhaps, there is a tie, via the Kennedy name, back through
> > Kenneth 2, to the Royal Scots Greys Regiment, somehow associated with
> > the reward to the original Dalziell for retrieving the corpse of the
> > kinsman of Kenneth 2, that Dalziell being ancestor to the founder of the
> > Royal Scots Greys Regiment?
> >
> > --
> >
> Thus perhaps, the connection that I perceive between the Oxford line of
> BUSBY's above, and the BUSBY line of John BUSBY of the Busby Bore,
> appears to be more likely, if the possibility of a link between the
> Kennedy name and the Royal Scots Greys Regiment, is more than just
> conjecture.
> If anyone is interested in Kennedy research, there are numerous websites
> that can be found searching for "clan kennedy" using www.google.com, and
> a CLAN-KENNEDY rootsweb mailing list exists (one of the google results),
> and a KENNEDY rootsweb mailing list also exists.
> --

Text from message 2:

While the possible connection, by name alone, involving the KENNEDY
name, may seem stretching things a bit, one thing that interested me, in
particular, which is why my message was (possibly?) so long-winded, was
the connection with the Royal Scots Greys Regiment, which was not clear
for Henry Kennedy BUSBY, but, the history of the KENNEDY and DALZIELL
connections that I had mentioned, could have meant that Henry Kennedy
BUSBY was entitled to join the regiment, as a birthright, if he was a
son or descendant of the KENNEDY line that was associated with the
establishment of the regiment.

To me, that is the issue that may point to a probable connection of that
BUSBY line, with the KENNEDY's of Sarah KENNEDY's line, with her
marrying John BUSBY from Northumberland.

I can be contacted by email at Bret

This web page was last updated on 15 July, 2005